Comments on: The Pitfalls of Outsourcing Programmers http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/ News and Writings on Simulation, Business, and Technology Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:27:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Los peligros del outsourcing | So Be IT http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-28244 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:39:41 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-28244 [...] Pitfalls of outsourcing [...] [...] Pitfalls of outsourcing [...]

]]> by: Matt http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-28169 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:27:13 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-28169 I think this article was lost on some of the commenter's. Its not about whether Indians (or any other nationality) can design and develop innovative software. Its about companies losing there core focus and thereby losing there core competency. When a software company outsources its software development to another firm is it still a software company? Or have they become a marketing/sales firm? If a company outsources its core business - whether it be software/hardware - its lost its ability to innovate and to compete. Many US companies are doing this now and its essentially a race to the bottom. In the long run I think it just opens up markets to smaller more agile competitors who can compete by providing innovative products and services. I think this article was lost on some of the commenter's. Its not about whether Indians (or any other nationality) can design and develop innovative software. Its about companies losing there core focus and thereby losing there core competency.

When a software company outsources its software development to another firm is it still a software company? Or have they become a marketing/sales firm? If a company outsources its core business - whether it be software/hardware - its lost its ability to innovate and to compete.

Many US companies are doing this now and its essentially a race to the bottom. In the long run I think it just opens up markets to smaller more agile competitors who can compete by providing innovative products and services.

]]> by: Paul Chavent http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-27463 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:18:07 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-27463 You say "Programming is like design". Not really. You can make a software design without writting a line of code ! For example, in the "V-Model", the implementation (or others "low level" activities) can be outsourcing without compromize the capacity to innovate. You say "Programming is like design".

Not really. You can make a software design without writting a line of code ! For example, in the "V-Model", the implementation (or others "low level" activities) can be outsourcing without compromize the capacity to innovate.

]]> by: Jack Nickle http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-25693 Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:23:06 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-25693 I think the author meant outsourcing as in outsourcing to another company (often one in India). With this type of outsourcing you do lose competitive advantage. It has nothing to do with people in India being good or bad programmers. The external company just does not truly understand the company and its objectives. Their wants are very different to company wants. They want to code to fufil their contractual obligations and then move on to another contract. They just code to spec. People working directly for the company however want to innovate/help the company etc. This is very different to what Microsoft etc do. They don't outsource to India. They have people in India working for Microsoft doing R&D. They are involved in Microsofts culture. I think the author meant outsourcing as in outsourcing to another company (often one in India). With this type of outsourcing you do lose competitive advantage. It has nothing to do with people in India being good or bad programmers. The external company just does not truly understand the company and its objectives. Their wants are very different to company wants. They want to code to fufil their contractual obligations and then move on to another contract. They just code to spec. People working directly for the company however want to innovate/help the company etc.

This is very different to what Microsoft etc do. They don't outsource to India. They have people in India working for Microsoft doing R&D. They are involved in Microsofts culture.

]]> by: Punjabbie http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-25682 Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:28:08 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-25682 It's very easy to tell the people who think that outsourcing is a good idea. They are the ones picking up the jobs for cheap, while highly skilled programmers an IT professionals in the US are being flushed by the greed of companies like HP and Dell, IBM. Customer service from India SUCKS! None of the savings to these corporations are EVER re-invested in creating more jobs in the US, that is the myth. People in China, India, do not "deserve" my job here in the US, but some greedy scumbag CIO will see that I'm tossed out in the street just to make themselves look go to the precious shareholders, fueled by nothing more than greed. This is going to stop eventually, and when I start my own company in the coming year, outsourcing will not even be considered, and my products, and customer service will be far superior. It's very easy to tell the people who think that outsourcing is a good idea. They are the ones picking up the jobs for cheap, while highly skilled programmers an IT professionals in the US are being flushed by the greed of companies like HP and Dell, IBM. Customer service from India SUCKS! None of the savings to these corporations are EVER re-invested in creating more jobs in the US, that is the myth. People in China, India, do not "deserve" my job here in the US, but some greedy scumbag CIO will see that I'm tossed out in the street just to make themselves look go to the precious shareholders, fueled by nothing more than greed. This is going to stop eventually, and when I start my own company in the coming year, outsourcing will not even be considered, and my products, and customer service will be far superior.

]]> by: Jack http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-22363 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:36:30 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-22363 This article is about protecting America and its future. It's not that Indians or the Chinese are less intelligent, it’s that when the jobs go overseas there is little value to Americans to follow that training path. America then loses its place in the world as a leader in that field. Another concern is what does America get in return (other than cheap labor)? Does India or China send jobs in return? Do they spend their money here in the states? If this continues we as Americans will lose our place as the standard for the world economy. This article is about protecting America and its future. It's not that Indians or the Chinese are less intelligent, it’s that when the jobs go overseas there is little value to Americans to follow that training path. America then loses its place in the world as a leader in that field.

Another concern is what does America get in return (other than cheap labor)? Does India or China send jobs in return? Do they spend their money here in the states?

If this continues we as Americans will lose our place as the standard for the world economy.

]]> by: Trshant http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-20921 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:09:34 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-20921 Outsourcing to India was a quick and easy solution to cut costs during the US depression that happened in 2000. Also i totally agree with the view that Indians are good coders and incompetent programmers. the ill effects of this will be seen in the coming years when Indian programmers will be paid the same as their counterparts in the US. However it is just a matter of time when the companies realize that they were better off using American programmers who knew what they were doing and more importantly, why they were doing it. Outsourcing to India was a quick and easy solution to cut costs during the US depression that happened in 2000. Also i totally agree with the view that Indians are good coders and incompetent programmers. the ill effects of this will be seen in the coming years when Indian programmers will be paid the same as their counterparts in the US. However it is just a matter of time when the companies realize that they were better off using American programmers who knew what they were doing and more importantly, why they were doing it.

]]> by: gman http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-20790 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:06:38 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-20790 I can always tell which Indians are posting. The words "good for global economy" and "everyone benefits" without ever thinking of the US companies themselves. As long as the work lands in a 3rd world economy. For my input here further will involve outsourcing software development jobs. If it wasn't the cheap labor outsourcing wouldn't be happening at all. That's the bottom line. It's become quick fix for companies that believe it brings a competitive advantage when the reality is it good representation of bad management. Executives and CEO's believe this is an effective solution to reducing cost. The reality is the stock price of many of these US companies listed on this editorial hasn't moved up since their outsourcing began. What normally happens is projects within the IT organizations using outsourced work can never meet deadlines, lack an understanding of the business, do not have the creativity for efficiency or don't care to learn it, verbal communication is borderline ineffective with the US employees, and the tradeoff ends up being just as cost effective if the work had been left onsite in the US. There are some advantages to outsourcing, but companies carry the tasks too far and loose the talent of their employees and the competitive advantage when their ability to go from development to production quickly to stay ahead. I can always tell which Indians are posting. The words "good for global economy" and "everyone benefits" without ever thinking of the US companies themselves. As long as the work lands in a 3rd world economy. For my input here further will involve outsourcing software development jobs.

If it wasn't the cheap labor outsourcing wouldn't be happening at all. That's the bottom line. It's become quick fix for companies that believe it brings a competitive advantage when the reality is it good representation of bad management. Executives and CEO's believe this is an effective solution to reducing cost. The reality is the stock price of many of these US companies listed on this editorial hasn't moved up since their outsourcing began. What normally happens is projects within the IT organizations using outsourced work can never meet deadlines, lack an understanding of the business, do not have the creativity for efficiency or don't care to learn it, verbal communication is borderline ineffective with the US employees, and the tradeoff ends up being just as cost effective if the work had been left onsite in the US.

There are some advantages to outsourcing, but companies carry the tasks too far and loose the talent of their employees and the competitive advantage when their ability to go from development to production quickly to stay ahead.

]]> by: Venkatesh http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-18585 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:14:46 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-18585 As soon as the outsourcing word is used, India comes up automatically. This is an eternal debate whether to outsource or not, what to outsource, etc. Common subject of such outsourcing discussion include, "Job loss in US due to outsourcing", which in fact proven to be false. For every 1 $ of job outsourced to India, US/Any other country gets in return $1.25-1.5$. This in turn is invested back in the country to create more jobs. Other familiar discussions would include, "Indian resources should be used only for back end processing, not for design development". In fact this is a myth. Even though most of the work that is given to india are "development" work not design work. My view is it is due to the fact that, it is easier to design/architect systems when the requirement provider is closer to the source. But Indian programmers are as competitive as any body else in the world. Key point is, western programmers have to come out of insecurity thinking and broaden their mind to work with indian or any other programmers to create win-win situation in the world. As soon as the outsourcing word is used, India comes up automatically. This is an eternal debate whether to outsource or not, what to outsource, etc. Common subject of such outsourcing discussion include, "Job loss in US due to outsourcing", which in fact proven to be false. For every 1 $ of job outsourced to India, US/Any other country gets in return $1.25-1.5$. This in turn is invested back in the country to create more jobs.
Other familiar discussions would include, "Indian resources should be used only for back end processing, not for design development". In fact this is a myth. Even though most of the work that is given to india are "development" work not design work. My view is it is due to the fact that, it is easier to design/architect systems when the requirement provider is closer to the source. But Indian programmers are as competitive as any body else in the world.

Key point is, western programmers have to come out of insecurity thinking and broaden their mind to work with indian or any other programmers to create win-win situation in the world.

]]> by: Sumit http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-18183 Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:42:05 +0000 http://forio.com/resources/the-pitfalls-of-outsourcing-programmers/#comment-18183 The term Outsourcing has been abused a lot. I don't believe that the people or companies who are actually taking up the outsourcing work are inferior in any sense. This is the fact that work force in India or China has been cheaper because of cost of living. This could be the reason that why did outsourcing started at all. But now this is not the case. The whole lot of R&D work is also being outsourced and transaction is happening other ways as well. Indian companies are outsourcing efforts to other countries like Singapore, etc. The term Outsourcing has been abused a lot. I don't believe that the people or companies who are actually taking up the outsourcing work are inferior in any sense. This is the fact that work force in India or China has been cheaper because of cost of living. This could be the reason that why did outsourcing started at all.

But now this is not the case. The whole lot of R&D work is also being outsourced and transaction is happening other ways as well. Indian companies are outsourcing efforts to other countries like Singapore, etc.

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